It is very possible that the great crowd is the same as the 144,000. John at first, only hears the number that are sealed then it is surprisingly revealed to him that the numbers are not literal as he is then given a view of a great crowd of, not literal Jews, but spiritual Jews of all nations and tribes and tongues. That could be the whole point of that passage in Revelation 7 - Revealing that the Israel of God will not be limited to natural Jews but is open to everyone who washes their robes in the blood of the lamb.
Island Man
JoinedPosts by Island Man
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183
The Great Crowd!
by A Believer innotice the 144000 can be counted and they all come from israel.. 9 after this i saw, and look!
a great crowd, which no man was able to number, out of all nations and tribes and peoples and tongues,*+ standing before the throne and before the lamb, dressed in white robes;+ and there were palm branches in their hands.+ .
this great crowd, no man was able to number, and they come from every nation!
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50
Why Finding the One True Religion is Impossible
by Simon injws like to think they have found the one true religion.
but like so many other religious people, it's usually the religion they were born into, the only religion they know because it's the first one they found or, at the most, one of two or three (typically the second one after they left their first / born-in faith).. the trouble is, there simply isn't enough time to explore and investigate each and everyone of the many thousands of belief systems, religions and sects around the world.. think of it this way: which is the best neighbourhood to live in where you would be most happy and most successful?
not just in the city or even the country you are in, but the entire world.. how would you ever know?
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Island Man
Very well stated. Steve2 also makes a very good point that is often overlooked: A person's impression of what "makes sense" religiously or what the true religion should be like, is heavily biased and shaped by the religious values that the person was brought up with early on.
That's why the JW's criteria of what constitutes true religion are all based on JW interpretation of the bible. Is it any wonder that it always ends up painting their own religion as the only true religion? That's why Muslims will always think that polytheistic religions make no sense - they're judging such religions by the acquired value of monotheism which they learned from Islam.
So without realizing it, religious people are engaged in a kind of circular logic by judging what constitutes true religion by using criteria they learned from their own religion, which means they are implicitly presupposing that religious values learned from their own religion are objectively true, when they should in fact be questioning it. Psychologically, it's a virtually impossible task for a religious person to objectively determine what is the true religion free of any biases acquired from their own religion.
Only someone brought up without religion is in the best position to objectively determine which religion makes the most sense, free of any theological biases implanted in them by a "native" religion.
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7
Revelation already fulfilled
by stockholm_Syndrome init appears to me revelation was 'fulfilled' 1st century and we are fooling ourselves to think it applies to present times .
let's start with the opening statement:.
a revelation by jesus christ, which god gave him,+ to show his slaves+ the things that must shortly take place.. hmm-- shortly take place ?
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Island Man
What I find funny about that book is that the opening statement matches the warning Jesus gave his followers at Luke 21:8. In other words, any student of Luke 21:8 has very good reasons to think that the author of Revelation is one of those false prophets that Jesus warned about. Who knows, maybe Luke 21:8 was emended/inserted by one of those very early christian theologians who didn't like the book of Revelation and wanted to discredit it.
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Do any of the governing body of JWs exercise their conscience?
by Half banana inthe members of the governing body, by being at the reins of a large corporation, must be confronted with situations which force them to think about the validity of their doctrines.. the australian royal commission hearing must have highlighted for the gb, especially jackson, the rational inconsistency of using an iron age dictum of "two witnesses" in a world which has moved beyond such rough justice.
today we have a scientific approach, we examine forensically, we have psychologists who can tell us about individual's minds and behaviour.
today, children's voices are not ignored.. the first and last resort of jws and their leaders is the doctrine of the "inerrancy of the bible".
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Island Man
The indoctrination overpowers their conscience. They tell themselves that they cannot trust their natural, humane conscience because it is imperfect and flawed. So they ignore their natural conscience to obey their "bible-trained" conscience. The rank and file do the same thing when it comes to issues like shunning and let their child die from lack of blood.
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24
Poopie has a thought what do you think child molestation
by poopie inso here's my thought what should be done to an elder that is accused of molesting a child and there no 2 witnesses ?
1. the elder should immediately step down or be removed.2.
the child should be protected.
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Island Man
"No reporting countries or states."
Whether or not local law mandates reporting is irrelevant! The church, if it is any truly righteous church that cares for its children, should have a policy of mandatory reporting of all allegations of pedophilia to the police, whether or not local law mandates reporting.
Only a callous and irresponsible church would use the absence of mandatory reporting laws as an excuse to not do the right thing by reporting the matter to the police. A church shouldn't need laws to force it to do the right thing. It should be morally sensitive enough to do the right thing without requiring secular laws to force it to do the right thing.
Any religion that refuses to report allegations of pedophilia to the police because local law does not mandate reporting, is a wicked church that cares more about its image than the welfare of its most vulnerable parishioners.
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24
Poopie has a thought what do you think child molestation
by poopie inso here's my thought what should be done to an elder that is accused of molesting a child and there no 2 witnesses ?
1. the elder should immediately step down or be removed.2.
the child should be protected.
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Island Man
The matter should be reported to the police immediately for proper and professional investigation. The result of the police investigation will then determine whether or not the elder should be DFd. He should not continue serving as elder while the allegation is hanging over him and the police are investigating. Reporting to the police should be mandatory and should be the first step.
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32
What will humans look like in 1000000 years?
by James Mixon inok, the bible is a fascinating book of fairy tales, so we move on..e. zolfagharifard, some guy states "humans will be very different creatures in just 1000 years from now due to climate change,artificial intelligence and genetic mutations are all set to transform our bodies in drastic ways.
a mixture of biology and machine on the inside.
this is only 1000 years from now, what the hell will humans look like in 100000 years????
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Island Man
I think we would see more artificial modifications to our body through genetic manipulation and the incorporation of bionic interfaces. Our "evolution" will be largely driven by artificial selection through genetic engineering, and the incorporation of technological devices into our bodies. Natural selection will no longer be an influential factor driving our evolution and its role will be fully supplanted by technology.
You'll probably see humans walking around with pointed, spock-like ears, purple skin and other weird body changes done through technology, with the same ease and frequency as we apply tattoos today.
There is also a very real risk that, as a species, we would become dumber. As computers become more powerful and as artificial general intelligence takes off there will be less need to use our own minds to solve problems and remember things. With technology doing all our problem-solving thinking for us there will be less selective pressure to preserve our huge brain size and conscious problem solving abilities.
The end result is that we will become a dumber species, on average, with the intelligence gap between the average human and the nerds being very great. There is even the risk of countries becoming cybercracies - countries governed by artificial general intelligence systems instead of humans once it becomes obviously apparent that such systems are better at crunching big data and making better decisions that humans.
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I think my house is haunted
by Steel inthings seem to go bump in the night.
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any idea if i should talk to the elder or what they would say?.
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Island Man
The only things that haunt houses are animals - bats, owls, rats, mice, cockroaches, termites, squirrels, possums; the wind; temperature variations; living people - burglers, pranksters, junkies; etc.
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Where Does It Say JWs Can't Read Pubs By Other Churches?
by Cold Steel incan jws read publications by other churches?
or by atheists?
i've always heard these are apostate materials.
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Island Man
It is not explicitly stated in print as far as I'm aware. But it is alluded to. Just a few years ago there was a kingdom ministry article that advised JWs on what to say to "tactfully" refuse christian literature given to them by a householder.
They regard literature from other churches as spiritual poison that can lead them away from the truth if they read it. They also equate accepting such literature with giving moral support to "Babylon the Great", the world empire of false religion. A JW who persists in reading or listening to religious material from other churches would be regarded as being spiritually unclean and would likely be disqualified from having any privileges in the congregation at the very least, possibly even disfellowshipped for apostasy or interfaith activities depending on the particular case and the disposition of the elders.
When offered literature by other christians most JWs would refuse giving excuses like:
"We do not exchange literature"
"We came to your house to offer you our literature so if you want us to accept yours then you have to come to our house to offer us" (yes i've actually heard that very petty and infantile reasoning from a JW)
"We are not looking for the truth we already have the truth so we see no need to accept your literature"
"We only accept literature that talks about God's kingdom" (this is the lying excuse that the KM article suggested they use to decline literature offered to them by other christians)
A few JWs will accept the literature only to discard it at the nearest bin when out of sight of the householder.
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Island Man
John 20 in Jamaican patois: